Leg Day?

[Lady Vol Fan]

Hey, thanks for the article. I enjoyed it. However, that isn't one I would use to justify doing a dedicated leg day.

First, while it included men doing resistance training with typical lower body exercises, I did not see it specify there was one resistance training session per week that was a dedicated lower body session (exclusion of working the upper body once a week within the session.)

Second, it held no control group of resistance training that were sessions of total body and no dedicated leg/lower body.

So while you have an EXCELLENT additional reason (your son ) to stay physically active, I'm not sure that your exercise regimen requires you to have dedicated sessions that you dread based on that study.

I think @Debinmi had an excellent suggestion of getting your dexa scan to have additional information and track the difference in a later scan with your resistance training you enjoy.

I personally have not scene any reliable study with middle age women over a year who refused supplements showing that once a week lower body only sessions are significantly effective for bone density over women who perform the same lower body exercises included in a total body sessions multiple times a week.

That's a study that would force me to do a dedicated leg day (if I hated leg day.)

If you still feel like you have to increase your leg exercises then sprinkle the session you would have done over the week in 20 minute intervals.

I congratulate you for taking care of yourself in your journey with your son addressing his needs in as healthy a body as you can. Hit those muscles in a way you can enjoy.

 

[nickisteen]

For me it is all about my main goal not about what I could possibly look like! Some of my goal do not conflict with what I enjoy the most.

For example : I love plyo and I know it does not conflict with keeping and increasing bone density.
That being said, I am just someone who embrace it all. Endurance, hypertrophy and strength. keeping a good form of course.

Cathe has made me do barre which is part of endurance and physical therapy. Those came in handy when i had my shoulder injury. Now that i regained back my left shoulder mobility, I can enjoy what i love the most. 8 reps of STS 2.0 Triset total. Those are INTENSE when it is properly done according to the purpose the workout was designed for.

ETA : Plyo does the job when it comes to preserving bone density/osteroposis. Here is an article.

Why You Need Plyometric Training Even If You Aren’t an Athlete

Plyometric training - do you really need it? There are benefits to power training that go beyond improving your jump height.

cathe.com

Thank you for sharing this article!!

 

[Lady Vol Fan]

So you ladies got me thinking about the best resistance training exercises for the lower body to lower the risk for osteoporosis. Has anyone read the research on what exercises to include? I not talking about muscle development, like wanting rounded glutes or quads with a sweep ... I mean the best for pulling and tugging on those bones to strengthen them or rather increase or maintain bone density.

I'm thinking ...
Squats.
Deadlifts.
Step ups.
Lunges.
Am I missing something?

Glute bridges, hip extensions also come to mind.

 

[FitSaxe]

I not talking about muscle development, like wanting rounded glutes or quads with a sweep ... I mean the best for pulling and tugging on those bones to strengthen them or rather increase or maintain bone density.

You have listed compound exercices and there are more than enough articles to support the effectiveness in building, preserving and keeping bones density.

When one execute those compound targeting glutes throughout variations, the 3 main glutes muscles --- glute max, medium and minimus.These muscles work as cushions to glutes/hip bones --- illium sacrum. So hyperthrophy is not solely executed for aesthetic goals!

That being said, regardless of the goal (building or pure strength), there is definitely some pulling on muscles. There is some pulling regardless of the training program from 8 reps going down to 6 - 5 reps We shall not forget muscles are linked to bones through tendons. So far there is no article stating the rep range 8-10 reps solely increase muscle size without pulling muscles.

Sorry for getting too technical/anatomal but it has got to be mentionned!

ETA : Here is the most recent article on bone density

Uncovering the Mystery of Bone Density Loss: Can You Regain It?

Bone density loss is a major concern for older people. Are there ways to build bone and increase bone density in later life?

cathe.com

 

[Lannette]

Look up mechanotransduction. Also here’s a great blog post by Katy Bowman.

Finally, ever notice that most people diagnosed with osteopenia will have one hip or shoulder that’s worse than the other? That’s not from lifting heavier weights with one leg or arm than the other.
It’s usually from bearing weight unevenly. Take note if you tend to stand with one foot slightly behind the other. Most of us do. That’s uneven loading.

Finally I don’t think that hypertrophy is necessary. On my body that’s fluff. I’m working on dense, hard, strong but compact muscle that’s balanced right and left sides.

I shoot for, and have achieved a sequential body comp that rates my physique as lean athletic with adequate muscle. Years ago I fell down 9 steps into a log wall. No broken bones. Just two very big bruises. The ED doc where I worked said I had good bones and fell with a lot of control. Control is something programs like Cathe’s LMR help build.

 

[FitSaxe]

I do do hypertrophy and others. Rep range I enjoy is 10. I don't mind doing less up to 6 or five and I am pretty compact! here I am below in black dress.

 

[Braille]

I'm with 'ya! I took a Hatha Yoga class in the 90's & never went back. I had umpteen different DVDs/VHS yoga workouts hoping something would click as I do believe in the benefits. But I find that basic, athletic stretching is more my style with the exception of Yin Yoga. I've donated most of the yoga workouts & I'm now trying Holden's workouts and Classical Stretch for mobility. I like them better than traditional yoga.

I do enjoy Cathe's yoga and some of Jessica Smiths, but it's more about the stretching for me - I have an active mind, and if I'm not told when to breath... I lose focus and my mind is on other things, so while I enjoy it, I don't get all of the benefits from it. I have learned over time to relax my brain (lol) by doing Lee Holden's workouts, and Classical Stretch makes my body (even joints) "feel" like I've done something good for them. Both are part of my active recovery days, and I find myself going into the next week's workout feeling ready to take on the world (well, except for legs lol).

 

[Lannette]

I do do hypertrophy and others. Rep range I enjoy is 10. I don't mind doing less up to 6 or five and I am pretty compact! here I am below in black dress.

You look great! What Cathe work outs and size weights do you use?

I wish I could lift heavy and stay that compact. A steady diet of heavy lifting for me will mean an increase in pant size up to two sizes. I’m older but still see easy gains in hypertrophy. I’m planning to begin a personal hybrid of LMR/STS 2.0 in 6 weeks.

 

[Lady Vol Fan]

and Classical Stretch makes my body (even joints) "feel" like I've done something good for them.

That's exactly how I feel after doing classical stretch.

 

[FitSaxe]

You look great! What Cathe work outs and size weights do you use?

Thank you!

I do mix workouts. Variety of programs is what keeps me motivated and has helped me to get in shape.
I have done STS original 3 or 4 times. I have done each Cathe series at their release for more than ten years. I do design my own rotations mainly depending on my goal --- I am a certified fitness and gym instructor. I am pretty much opened to try out various stuff at home.

That being said, I backed off heavy stuff because of left shoulder calcification and now I am building back up. I need to catch up on cathe load working out chest. 35 pounds feels too heavy at the moment but I lifted that load when I did STS Yes when i think about it I have that horrible wimp feeling!
I usually match the load of cathe workouts. hope I answered your question. Sorry for the delay in my response.Take care Lannette

 

[Jane Power-Grimm]

Great question and some super points raised. Kudos to you Braille for being so active - kickboxing, upper body workouts, step, dance and pickleball - wow, awesome! You are certainly way more active than most people and should feel proud of yourself for regularly engaging in a variety of physical activities.

I am 65 and have a diagnosis of osteoporosis in my spine and osteopenia in my hip. I have looked into this area deeply and work with an endocrinologist who is great. In terms of osteopososis prevention there are many things one can do - abstain from smoking, drink alcohol in moderation, eat foods rich in calcium (1200 mg/day) which is super important, take a calcium supplement along with Vitamin D if getting enough calcium from food sources is not realistic, wear a weighted vest while doing housework or when going for a walk, get in some balance training, do regular multi-directional impact movements (which you are getting with dance, pickleball, step and kickboxing), and doing resistance training. Yes, resistance training has been found to be helpful in addition to impact cardio movements. Here is a recent meta-analysis that you may find of interest...The Effects of Exercise Intensity on Bone in Post-Menopausal Women
In the results summary the authors said, "Resistance training, potentially in combination with impact training, appears to be the most effective osteogenic stimulus at the spine and hip".

But resistance training is only one factor. Genetics play a significant role, especially if you have a parent who has had a stress fracture. You can look at your risk level through this science backed quiz...Know Your Risk Quiz. (By the way, this is posted on the Osteoporosis Canada website which I recommend - the number one, national, go-to site in Canada that is full of useful, science backed info.)

All this to say that yes, ideally doing some resistance training for the lower body may have some protective effect. But, in my opinion, if you are doing all the other things right (nutrition, not smoking, impact movements, etc.) I wouldn't feel too guilty. If you really don't like it, it is unlikely you will stick to it every week for years just out of guilt. But if once in a while you can do a lower body workout with a fun friend, or go to a group class with a motivating instructor, or slip in lower body movements within total body workouts, metabolic workouts, or mat workouts (as others have suggested) then BONUS!, you can feel good about that.

 

[FitSaxe]

Great question and some super points raised. Kudos to you Braille for being so active - kickboxing, upper body workouts, step, dance and pickleball - wow, awesome! You are certainly way more active than most people and should feel proud of yourself for regularly engaging in a variety of physical activities.

I am 65 and have a diagnosis of osteoporosis in my spine and osteopenia in my hip. I have looked into this area deeply and work with an endocrinologist who is great. In terms of osteopososis prevention there are many things one can do - abstain from smoking, drink alcohol in moderation, eat foods rich in calcium (1200 mg/day) which is super important, take a calcium supplement along with Vitamin D if getting enough calcium from food sources is not realistic, wear a weighted vest while doing housework or when going for a walk, get in some balance training, do regular multi-directional impact movements (which you are getting with dance, pickleball, step and kickboxing), and doing resistance training. Yes, resistance training has been found to be helpful in addition to impact cardio movements. Here is a recent meta-analysis that you may find of interest...The Effects of Exercise Intensity on Bone in Post-Menopausal Women
In the results summary the authors said, "Resistance training, potentially in combination with impact training, appears to be the most effective osteogenic stimulus at the spine and hip".

But resistance training is only one factor. Genetics play a significant role, especially if you have a parent who has had a stress fracture. You can look at your risk level through this science backed quiz...Know Your Risk Quiz. (By the way, this is posted on the Osteoporosis Canada website which I recommend - the number one, national, go-to site in Canada that is full of useful, science backed info.)

All this to say that yes, ideally doing some resistance training for the lower body may have some protective effect. But, in my opinion, if you are doing all the other things right (nutrition, not smoking, impact movements, etc.) I wouldn't feel too guilty. If you really don't like it, it is unlikely you will stick to it every week for years just out of guilt. But if once in a while you can do a lower body workout with a fun friend, or go to a group class with a motivating instructor, or slip in lower body movements within total body workouts, metabolic workouts, or mat workouts (as others have suggested) then BONUS!, you can feel good about that.

Yes genetic is not the only factor

 

[Braille]

Great question and some super points raised. Kudos to you Braille for being so active - kickboxing, upper body workouts, step, dance and pickleball - wow, awesome! You are certainly way more active than most people and should feel proud of yourself for regularly engaging in a variety of physical activities.

I am 65 and have a diagnosis of osteoporosis in my spine and osteopenia in my hip. I have looked into this area deeply and work with an endocrinologist who is great. In terms of osteopososis prevention there are many things one can do - abstain from smoking, drink alcohol in moderation, eat foods rich in calcium (1200 mg/day) which is super important, take a calcium supplement along with Vitamin D if getting enough calcium from food sources is not realistic, wear a weighted vest while doing housework or when going for a walk, get in some balance training, do regular multi-directional impact movements (which you are getting with dance, pickleball, step and kickboxing), and doing resistance training. Yes, resistance training has been found to be helpful in addition to impact cardio movements. Here is a recent meta-analysis that you may find of interest...The Effects of Exercise Intensity on Bone in Post-Menopausal Women
In the results summary the authors said, "Resistance training, potentially in combination with impact training, appears to be the most effective osteogenic stimulus at the spine and hip".

But resistance training is only one factor. Genetics play a significant role, especially if you have a parent who has had a stress fracture. You can look at your risk level through this science backed quiz...Know Your Risk Quiz. (By the way, this is posted on the Osteoporosis Canada website which I recommend - the number one, national, go-to site in Canada that is full of useful, science backed info.)

All this to say that yes, ideally doing some resistance training for the lower body may have some protective effect. But, in my opinion, if you are doing all the other things right (nutrition, not smoking, impact movements, etc.) I wouldn't feel too guilty. If you really don't like it, it is unlikely you will stick to it every week for years just out of guilt. But if once in a while you can do a lower body workout with a fun friend, or go to a group class with a motivating instructor, or slip in lower body movements within total body workouts, metabolic workouts, or mat workouts (as others have suggested) then BONUS!, you can feel good about that.

Thank you so much for for those resources. It does sound like I need to slip in some lower body resistance training to get that extra protection. I am so active that my heart rate rarely rises when I do what others would consider to be cardio (my recreational activities). I've never been a fan of lower body strength work, and I'm just now trying to get back into fitness. Unfortunately my iron levels are low, and I'm having issues with suddenly over heating and my heart rate rising fast when I try doing a lot of the standing strength training (ex. squats, lunges, etc.) and it's making me feel drained and weak - very non-motivating. lol My body seems to be accustomed to my recreational activities, and I'm slowly getting back into strength training - my upper body is weak and I'm having to use Cathe's beginner workouts to get started - progress is slow, but I enjoy the workouts. I'm using the same beginner set for lower body, though, and I'm having a dreadful time of it - can only do about 5 min. a day before I overheat, heartrate goes up, and I feel weak - so I was hoping to just avoid it all together - hoping it wasn't needed. I'll continue, though - 5 minutes is better than none, and it sounds like I will get benefits from it.

 

[LJB]

I enjoy working out, but I dread leg day. I don't like it. I don't want to do it, and I'm a big baby about it. So... I just want to verify that I actually need to be putting myself through lower body workouts. lol I love step aerobics and kick boxing, and I do them regularly. I don't suppose standing on one leg to do a kick with the other, squatting for ice breakers, stepping up and down on the step, leg abduction moves (some of the step DVDs) and stuff like that hits all the same lower body muscles as a complete lower body workout do they? I dance and play pickleball too, so my legs get a lot of movement/exercise. My legs look great (well... if you ignore the varicose veins lol) - I mean... they're toned. Do I still need specific strength training for them?

I look at exercise this way: You do it because you either enjoy it, and/or you are after a certain result, which could be fat loss, a toned body, more muscle, be stronger etc. If you really dislike leg day, and you already have good looking legs with all the leg work from step and kickboxing (so you have the results without leg day), then I don’t see why you should do it.
I avoided leg day for years because I also found step, and all the ice breaker squatting and lunges in the cardio was enough, but now I do it about once a week because I find I need more strength in my leg and glute muscles to supplement and support the arthritis in my knees and ankles. However, if arthritis wasn’t a problem, then I probably wouldn’t do it either.

 

[FitSaxe]

I avoided leg day for years because I also found step, and all the ice breaker squatting and lunges in the cardio was enough, but now I do it about once a week because I find I need more strength in my leg and glute muscles to supplement and support the arthritis in my knees and ankles. However, if arthritis wasn’t a problem, then I probably wouldn’t do it either.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. it has reminded me of my own story as to how and why I decided to embrace training on a consistent basis. Health was the main reason. Type 2 Diabetes runs in my familly.
I have to be on top of the weight fluctuation. Then I discovered the power of building muscles to improve my metabolism. Few months after my body started to transform and the rest is history. Now my health is at it's best and working out is FUN as ever.

 

[Braille]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. it has reminded me of my own story as to how and why I decided to embrace training on a consistent basis. Health was the main reason. Type 2 Diabetes runs in my familly.
I have to be on top of the weight fluctuation. Then I discovered the power of building muscles to improve my metabolism. Few months after my body started to transform and the rest is history. Now my health is at it's best and working out is FUN as ever.

I have been back to exercising for almost 2 weeks, and my motivation (and abilities) just weren't there the first week. This week, however, I've been enjoying it more, and now that I know where I'm at and what I can and can't (yet) do... I've started to become more organized - planning the rest of this week's workouts and jotting down some ideas for next week. I'd been just sticking to Cathe's Basic 30 min. total body workout and the ab, lower body/upper body workouts. Ideas that others shared on this post helped motivate me and I spent last week doing one muscle meltdown a day with either a leg or ab work following it. It added variety and made things more interesting until I could figure out where to go from there. I think the fun factor is going to start kicking in for me soon, because with all of the ideas everybody gave me on how to add variety and get started, I have choices. Planning was always such a fun thing for me (when I used to work out regularly) and the power to have choices. When I had to start from scratch... my choices felt limited and it was bringing me down. I agree that health is a major factor in working out. My upper body is weaker than it's ever been, and I'm not as young as I used to be, so I need to get stronger as well as get back to being in good health. I didn't realize how bad of shape I was in, because I dance regularly and had no issues. When I started trying to do leg work though (lunges and such), my heart rate shoots up and my breathing isn't good. It explains why I'm having off & on problems when I'm caring for my adult son (disabled). Those things that I do for him that take a lot of power... they "wind" me. So, my health goal is to get stronger, increase/maintain bone density, and to be able to get healthy enough that I have the energy and air I need when something isn't "steady state" cardio. That last one is going to be the hardest and I haven't figured out how I'm going to achieve it yet, but back when I used to work out regularly... my body would tell me what I needed. I'm hoping that will start to happen as I get stronger and healthier - that my body will start to "crave" what it needs.

 

[FitSaxe]

I have been back to exercising for almost 2 weeks, and my motivation (and abilities) just weren't there the first week. This week, however, I've been enjoying it more, and now that I know where I'm at and what I can and can't (yet) do... I've started to become more organized - planning the rest of this week's workouts and jotting down some ideas for next week. I'd been just sticking to Cathe's Basic 30 min. total body workout and the ab, lower body/upper body workouts. Ideas that others shared on this post helped motivate me and I spent last week doing one muscle meltdown a day with either a leg or ab work following it. It added variety and made things more interesting until I could figure out where to go from there. I think the fun factor is going to start kicking in for me soon, because with all of the ideas everybody gave me on how to add variety and get started, I have choices. Planning was always such a fun thing for me (when I used to work out regularly) and the power to have choices. When I had to start from scratch... my choices felt limited and it was bringing me down. I agree that health is a major factor in working out. My upper body is weaker than it's ever been, and I'm not as young as I used to be, so I need to get stronger as well as get back to being in good health. I didn't realize how bad of shape I was in, because I dance regularly and had no issues. When I started trying to do leg work though (lunges and such), my heart rate shoots up and my breathing isn't good. It explains why I'm having off & on problems when I'm caring for my adult son (disabled). Those things that I do for him that take a lot of power... they "wind" me. So, my health goal is to get stronger, increase/maintain bone density, and to be able to get healthy enough that I have the energy and air I need when something isn't "steady state" cardio. That last one is going to be the hardest and I haven't figured out how I'm going to achieve it yet, but back when I used to work out regularly... my body would tell me what I needed. I'm hoping that will start to happen as I get stronger and healthier - that my body will start to "crave" what it needs.

Stick around.....What you desire is going to come back bit by bit. Just take it slow bit by bit.
One reasonable goal after another. You do not need to gain back 100% just enough to feel yourself again.

 

[Braille]

Good start Braille! I've been thinking about you and the need for variety with weight training. Glad you thought of the ICE Meltdowns. If you have the LITE Pyramid Pump, that might be another option for a body-part-a-day as they're shorter than the Meltdowns. If you have Cross-Train Xpress - that could be another body-part-a-day type workout - use lighter weights as appropriate. I think previously you said you had some Jessica Smith and KCM ...maybe see what you have for weight-training.

I did the Pyramid Pumps - one body part a day (the week before I did the muscle meltdown), and I did the Perfect 30 lower body one of those days as well as a couple of ab workouts. Then, I did the same thing with one body part a day (burrn sets from Xtrain) and added the same bonus lower body and a few ab workouts. I sprinkled in the foam roller workouts from LMR last week. I used a sledgehammer yesterday, so I was sore, but I squeezed in the Perfect 30 Upper Bonus - just to make sure I kept me commitment to work out. I'm planning on Classical Stretch and Lee Holden (Tai Chi) this weekend - hoping it will give me time to figure out where to go from here. I'm thinking about trying Total Body (from Cathe's beginner DVD again, and see if I'm able to do it all in one shot this time. If I can... I'd like to start having an upper body day, a lower body day, and eventually (when I'm in better shape) adding a total body day. I forgot all about Jessica - thank you for the reminder! I have been trying to get myself refamiliarized with my collection, and I spotted her walking and yoga videos - I think I have one or two strength focused ones as well - I just didn't do them back when I worked out, because I used Cathe's. I'll have to preview them - might be just what I need. I've been searching the 2 Lazy for the Gym blog for shorter leg bonuses, but haven't had any success. I'm REALLY bored with the lower body Cathe beginner workout, but I feel I need the weight bearing from standing for my hips (bone density), so I'm going to take your suggestion and see what I have with Jessica Smith. I'm horrible with acronyms lol - what's KCM?

 

[Braille]

Laughing because you used a sledgehammer too - you poor thing - I'm STILL feeling it! lol

I've never used the Workout Manager before, so I didn't know it could be used that way - thank you for the idea. That sounds more efficient than what I've been doing (reading blogs to try to find what I need.) Push-Pull! I think I remember that one, and if I'm remembering correctly... that might be just what I need. I own the others you mentioned, but I'm not recalling them in detail, so I'll have to take a peek-see at them. Thank you for the suggestions. I DO remember the barre/chair bonus on KickMax, and I remember that I don't like it - not one little bit. lol I don't have any of Kelly's workouts, but so far, I have found 2 Jessica Smith (thanks for the reminder) strength DVDs that I'm going to review. I moved to my new home quite some time ago, but things were hectic, so I still had boxes in my basement. The only ones I'd unpacked when I set up my workout room was Cathe. Going through those boxes (unlabeled and unorganized, because they were packed in a rush) wasn't something I'd been looking forward to, but once I started finding workout CDs here and there, it started becoming fun. lol I feel like I struck gold every time I find one. lol

 

[Braille]

I didn't care for it either when it first came out and promptly forgot about it until I injured my knee last year and couldn't do traditional LB weight lifting ... so I rediscovered all Cathe's barre bonus workouts along with FitTower workouts. They allowed me to at least do something for LB besides rehab & spinning. They are not the same type of intensity work, but they do have a bite!

I did try using the premix tab on her shopping page, but some of them didn't have that available (older videos), so I think that workout manager will help me find out more about those. Yeah, "bite" is an understatement. lol More like DOMS! lol I also have severe varicose veins, and I've found that Barre work increases the swelling, while squats and lunges and stuff seem to reduce the pain and swelling - Those larger movements seem to improve my circulation. So does doing step cardio, but I'm not adding that to my routine until I get my strength up and a dedicated strength routine established.