Starting to have problem w/ knees

K

KellyP

Guest
Cathe,

I have done MIS and other tapes where they do a lot of lunges, dips and squats and have begun to notice some crackling in my right knee when I extend it. It doesn't seem to hurt much, very mild ache. I'm frustrated because I don't want to have to stop doing your workouts. I'm actually waiting to receive my PS series and Powerhour via a trade. Any suggestions? Any chance that you might come up with an intensive leg workout that can work out the legs without putting stress on the knees? Is that even possible? I think you are amazing and I thoroughly enjoy your tapes and hope to someday look as great as you. I can't believe how wonderful you look after having a baby. I have 2 kids, 3 and 1 and I am actually almost in the best shape of my life! Thanks to you.

So, please help me with my problem. If you can suggest some exercises that I can do with your tapes, or specific ones to avoid in the tapes I mentioned, I would appreciate it. Maybe during those tough exercises you could suggest something to do while that's on, so I'm still getting a workout.

Thanks,

Kelly
 
Kelly...

I am not Cathe, but just wanted to tell you not to be afraid that your knees are going to break anytime soon. Although I cannot be sure as to the extent of your problem, I can say that a doctor has told me that this "crackling" is actually very common and harmless as long as you are not feeling pain. If you are, it is advisable to lay off the weights and high impact cardio for a few days to let your knee recover.

I have the same thing wrong in my knees, but it is a overuse injury...meaning it only acts up when I overuse it in doing a very intense lower body workout or, more commonly, when I run too many days in a row. When I lay off for a few and much of the time just lower the impact of my workouts, it goes away and I can come back good as new. This is not to say that degenerative changes cannot happen over time, but it is not good to "baby" your joints either as what can make them weak can also make them stronger. You just have to be smart about it.

Just my two cents...Janice

PS....Do you really want to live a life with no lunges or squats?? What WOULD your lower body do???:):)
 
As a physical therapist, athletic trainer and clinical exercise physiologist, I can't agree with Janice's assertion that "crackling" is harmless. Occasional pops and clicks, when painless and/or infrequent, are benign enough, but the crunching on a regular basis, especially when accompanied by discomfort isn't good.

Far too often, it is the sign of patellar maltracking, particularly in women. This can lead to pain, dysfunction and permanent damage to articular cartilage. It is amazing how often I see this in clinical practice--in addition to having it myself.

In my case, I ended up having to have surgery on both knees to correct a problem that was let go faaar too long. I started with problems as a kid, none of which were taken seriously. Postoperatively, I am much better, but the damage done to the backside of my kneecaps will never improve. I am strong--was before surgery, too--but will always have pain with my knees.

If the pain is just starting, I suggest finding a good orthopaedic or sports physical therapist. If you catch the problem early, there are all sorts of stretching, soft tissue manipulation and corrective exercises you can do. There are also several techniques that will enhance your standing strength training and allow you to maximally work all muscle groups while protecting your knees.

Please e-mail me if I can help!
Maribeth
 
Just a small suggestion. When I do Cathe's lower body I have to do all single count moves as a 2-up 2-down count. Otherwise, my knees hurt and I can only do one leg workout a week. I don't know if this is hindering any gains I might make, but I use a weight that is challenging.

Andrea
 
Maribeth -

I read with great interest your comments on this question and hope to get your assessment on my situation. I tried to email you, but it wouldn't go thru.

Approximately 3-4 weeks ago, I went to see an orthopedic/sport medicine dr about my knee that was hurt. I had felt a "rubber-band" pop with a hyperextended feel at the back of my knee while in a swimming pool (which was weird I thought, knowing most of your weight is supported in the water). Anyway, it began to get stiffer and so I rested from my workouts for several days, tried to work out again, got stiff again, rested again.... and finally, after running 3 mi on my "cushioned-deck" treadmill feeling great, it really swelled. When I tried riding my bike, it felt like bone grinding on bone and ouched! When the swelling wouldn't go away, I went to the doc.

My workout schedule was mainly Cathe's PS series, running with the the runervals 1.0 vid/a long run, mt biking...I was getting ready for an adventure race the next weekend.

The doc took Xrays and told me I had degenerative knees and cartilidge. He said the underside of the kneecap should be smooth like a teflon coating and mine was jagged and with the lack of cartilidge - it was causing the pain which was causing the swelling. Nothing to do to improve it, except how I was working out. Much to my dismay, just about every way I was working out, he pretty much nixed. No squats, lunges...biking was also not great, especially the mt biking...running was bad. He said after all calmed down (he wanted me off for 3-4 weeks, taking advil and icing 3x/day - yeah, right with 4 kids and a 2-story house!) I might be able to get back to 90% of what I was now doing, meaning, I could experiment and determine the "zone" of what my knees could take. Maybe, I could run once or twice a week, but he didn't want me to use incline. I'd just have to decide.

He showed me that by sitting on the edge of the table with my feet dangling, I could put my hand on my knee cap and actually feel the grinding there as I raised my leg up and down. It's actually in both knees. He said my symptoms including really feeling the pain as I descended my stairs were classic to this case. It was everything I could do to not burst into tears before I left his office.

Since then, I have done nothing in my depression over it. I went to rehab a few times to learn exercises that supposedly would help. I was not impressed. Nothing I can do right now can include cardio that I was used to, so I feel totally lost. I'm going to try to get back to at least an upper body workout, but, man, I had conquered Cathes' PS SL&A - and had been doing it faithfully out of fear of the soreness when I skipped and then this. Not to mention what that means for my adventure races, which consist of running, mt biking, kayaking. Doc said the kayaking would be ok - very funny!

I'm so sorry to go on about this and to take up the board space, but you sound like you know quite a bit about this area and I just wanted to get your opinion. Especially, since being off for this amount of time - I'm still having the grind and pain just doing everyday activities. Will it ever get "calmed down"?

I would appreciate any insight you might be able to give me! Thanks very much!
 
I'll let others give you their expert advice, but wanted you to know I am thinking of you. I can only imagine how depressed you must feel. Sending you a BIG cyber hug {{{FITNUTTY}}} and hoping you can find relief soon and a way to get back to what you love. Keep us posted.

Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH http://www.plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
 
Just a suggestion. I am no expert on this subject. I have been having trouble with my knees off and on for awhile. I loved to do Cathe's weight tapes and still do. I don't use her cardio tapes. Anyway I noticed my knees started bothing me because of all of the lunges and squats I was doing with heavy poundage. A nice alternative to this and still get your strength workouts in are Margaret Richard tapes. She uses mostly floorwork and if she lunges or squats, it is with no weight.(Her tapes are a nice compliment to Cathe's tapes) Margaret's website is

bodyelectrictv.com

She uses light weights, high reps. Her upper body and lower body tapes are excellent as well as her Getting Better tape where she is exclusively (sp?) on the floor. I hope you get better soon

Kim
 
Maribeth,
I tried emailing you but it doesn't go thru just as the other poster mentioned.

I would SO LOVE to ask you a few questions if you have the time. My mother was just diagnosed with osteoarthritis in her knee. She is barely able to take a few steps now. She is becoming depressed and the whole situation is quite distressing for me as well to watch her go from so healthy to barely able to walk.

My mother has always been very active (walking 4 to 5 miles per day) several days per week (for 15 years now). Has the walking made the arthritis worse or did the walking help to delay the onset of the arthritis? Would it be possible for me to ask you a few questions either here or thru email? Please let me know.
THANKS A MILLION!
Lisa
 
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-05-02 AT 03:01PM (Est)[/font][p]Maribeth,
I tried emailing you but it doesn't go thru just as the other poster mentioned.

I would SO LOVE to ask you a few questions if you have the time. My mother was just diagnosed with osteoarthritis in her knee. She is barely able to take a few steps now. She is becoming depressed and the whole situation is quite distressing for me as well to watch her go from so healthy to barely able to walk.

My mother has always been very active (walking 4 to 5 miles per day) several days per week (for 15 years now). Has the walking made the arthritis worse or did the walking help to delay the onset of the arthritis? Would it be possible for me to ask you a few questions either here or thru email? Please let me know.
THANKS A MILLION!
Lisa
 
DebbieH - Thank you so much for the sweet words! They really meant alot to me! I do know that in the great scheme of things, this is just not that big of a deal - but having someone understand the passion I have for my fitness really helps! Thanks again!

And, Kim - I have been hearing more about Margaret Richard's floor emphasis as I have read more and more about problem knees. Thanks for the website - I hadn't gotten that info yet. I will check that out. You guys are really great - thanks so much for your understanding!

Of course, my ultimate wish (besides new knees) would be for Cathe to put out a video for leg strength that would consider those of us in this situation........ I know, I know, Cathe only has a 1 mile to do list, I'm sure!!!!
 
Hi, Lisa!
Will double check my e-mail. It should be [email protected].

In answer to your question about your mom--the answer may be both. Her walking has helped keep her muscles strong, but if she has a degenerative condition in her joints (ie, OA), the pressure of her body weight on the knees can exacerbate her problem.

Please try above e-mail address for me! Take care and in the meantime, have your mom do gentle range of motion exercises to lubricate the joints well before walking.
Maribeth
 
Hey, there!
I can relate to the knee problems you have! I had surgery last August on my left and in December on my right as a consequence of years of patellar maltracking/malalignment and attempting to ignore the crackling, which a few years down the line became pain, which led to horrific cartilage degeneration and a loose body in one knee and an osteophyte (bone spur) in the other.

Surgery has made a huge difference for me. They removed the spur and loose body, planed down the roughed up cartilage and performed a lateral release--cutting of some of the connective tissue that was the primary cause of my patellar tracking problems. But, the places on the back side of both kneecaps where there is no cartilage left will NEVER be the same again! Had I seen a knowledgeable orthopaedist and/or physical therapist when the problem first started (I was 10 when it initially surfaced), I would have had little damage and virtually no permanent impairment.

This is why I am so adamant about making sure anybody who is having crackling in a joint on a regular basis, painful or not, realize that contrary to what you might be told, it is NOT normal and does indicate problems--problems that may be very easily solved with corrective exercises and stretching if they're caught in time.

Don't let it get you down! You can and will, with the proper help, get the inflammation calmed and get back to most of your normal activities! Right now, the main thing is to figure out exactly what is causing the pain and problems--I don't mean the fact that you have cartilage degeneration, but why you have it--soft tissue tightness/restrictions, muscular imbalances, patellar malalignment, etc. Once that is determined, then a course for treatment can be established and you'll be on your way!

Please try to e-mail me again. I checked the address listed for me here--it looks fine, but just in case, here it is again: [email protected].

Take care!
Maribeth
 
Another question

What kind of doctor do you see for knee problems? Anyone know if most insurances cover that kind of stuff?

Andrea
 
RE: Another question

Hi, Andrea,
Most insurances do cover, although if you have an HMO, most likely you will have to be referred by your primary care doc.
I would recommend an orthopaedic surgeon or family practitioner specializing in sports medicine. If you go the ortho route, try to find one who treats athletes--they understand the body and mindset of an active person much better than some of the old sawbones who just want a chance to cut.

If I can help, let me know!
Maribeth
 
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