Confusion over weight loss and muscle gains

navywifey

Cathlete
Ok, this is what I understand about strength training while losing weight:

1. Since weight loss involves creating a caloric deficit and gaining muscle involves a caloric overage, it's impossible to make muscle gains.

2. To lose weight you have to focus mostly on cardio but to still do strength training to prevent muscle loss.

3. If you do gain muscle, unless you are burning the fat also, you'll look bigger.

Am I correct so far?

So is the entire purpose of strength training during weight loss is to prevent muscle loss or do you make gains also? When you lose inches aren't your muscles getting stronger and more toned? Since heavy training can make my hungry, should I just do the minimun needed until I lose the weight?

I'm not expecting to look like Cathe straight out of losing some weight, but I wish I understood how this all works. Some definition after all of this hard work would be nice.

If anyone can clarify all of this, I'd appreciate it.:)
 
I'm not sure that gaining muscle requires a caloric overage. I don't think it does. I think you gain muscle when you use the muscle to failure, thereby causing it to repair and rebuild itself.

Losing weight is accomplished by eating clean and doing both cardio and strength training. I guess you would look bigger if you gained muscle but did not lose fat. The goal is to replace the fat with muscle. Therefore you may weigh the same, but if your body fat is lower you will look smaller. Your measurements will show that you are smaller.

Muscle tissue actually aids in weight loss because it is a metabolically active tissue, requiring the burning of more calories even at rest.

HTH

Julia
 
From what I understand you need an excess of calories to build muscle and a decrease in calories to lose fat.
 
Well I don't have a degree in exercise physiology so I can't really explain why things happen, but I've been doing this for about 16 years so I can tell you if you do certain things what WILL happen.

First of all, I don't think gaining muscle requires caloric overage. Gaining muscle will happen if you weight train regularly and push yourself.

Second, weight loss is a combination of factors. Cardio is important, and diet is more important. Also, many recent studies are showing how larger muscles in general help burn fat more efficiently. Working larger muscles specifically (for example, a good hard quadricep workout) will increase fat burning. So basically what I'm saying is doing all three is the most effective way to lose weight.

Finally, I don't believe muscle gain makes you look bigger. I think it makes you look leaner. If you're not losing fat, basically what will happen is you'll stay the same size, but you'll still feel better & be healthier. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong w/having a little extra fat--in fact, some people prefer it & I think it's great when people can accept themselves for who they are & not be obsessive compulsive about being buff.

LOL I don't know if I'm clarifying anything or confusing you even more. But the bottom line is strength training is important for a variety of factors, including fat burning, bone strengthening (especially important for women), endurance and all around good health.
 
I agree. I think people confuse eating surplus calories to gain muscle with eating ENOUGH calories to gain muscle. While it's true you must have a calorie deficit to lose weight, a too-low deficit will sabatoge your efforts & you will gain no muscle & lose no fat. Your body will decide you're starving (you are) & hold onto everything it can get.

Ruth:)
 
How to Lose the Most Fat and Build the Most Muscle
By Nick Nilsson

A lot can happen in 30 days…

The dream of everyone who trains is to lose maximum fat and build maximum muscle in the shortest period of time possible. While it is definitely possible to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, in my experience, the best results come from concentrating on one major goal at a time.

Let me put it this way: to lose fat, you need a caloric deficit. To build muscle, you need a caloric surplus. If you try to do both at the same time, you may just remain exactly where you are!

So the question before us is - how do we maximize both fat loss and muscle gain, two very much opposing goals, in only 30 days?

It’s simple – we focus on both goals in the same program but not at the exact same time!

By alternating rapidly back and forth between reduced-calorie fat loss training and higher-calorie mass-oriented training, you can not only accomplish both goals at the same time, you can ! actually use the two opposing goals to feed on each other and send your results through the roof!

To illustrate my point, remember how quickly you gain weight when coming off a strict diet? Remember how quickly you lose weight when you start to diet and you haven’t been careful about what you’ve been eating? That’s your body rapidly adapting to a stress. One of the most powerful features of this switching back and forth is in the change itself - your body changes far quicker when you give it a powerful reason.

What is the result of this switching back and forth? Extremely rapid fat loss and extremely rapid muscle gain.

To maximize the effects of this switching, you must tailor your training, diet and supplementation towards your specific goal during that particular time. Proper manipulation of these factors will greatly enhance the body’s hormonal response to this program, which is the real key to maximizing your results.

For five days, we will ta! rget everything about your training and nutrition towards fat loss.

·You will reduce your caloric intake below maintenance levels to promote fat burning.
·You will reduce the rest periods between sets in your weight training to increase the intensity of the workload and boost the metabolism.
·You will increase your training volume, performing more sets for each bodypart.
·You will not push your body to muscular failure – pushing to failure can be too stressful to the muscles when on a reduced-calorie diet. Stop one rep short of this point.
·You will include cardio training, preferably High Intensity Interval Training for best results, to burn calories and further boost your metabolism.
·You will NOT take creatine during this time (I’ll explain why below).
·It is best to follow a low-carb diet during this time for maximum effectiveness. Eating this way will be especially powerful when you switch to the next phase of the program.

After five days, your metabolism will be just starting to get used to the training and nutritional program you’re following. Now we’ll throw it a curveball and change everything!

For the next five days, you will be focusing your training, nutrition and supplementation completely on muscle building.

·You will increase your caloric and protein intake to promote gains in muscle mass.
·You will increase your rest periods in between sets to allow for more recovery and increased strength in your sets.
·You will decrease your training volume, doing fewer sets but with greater intensity. This is the time to really push your muscles to the edge! You’re feeding them now, so don’t be shy about training them hard.
·You will eliminate all cardio training in order to maximize muscle gain. Cardio training can burn calories that should be used for the muscle building process.
·You will load creatine for the first three days of the muscle-gain phase. This will take advantage of and greatly enhance the flood of water and nutrients into the muscles.
·You will NOT follow a low-carb diet during this time. We want lots of carbs to provide energy and promote insulin release (the body’s primary storage hormone). This insulin release will help shuttle protein and other nutrients into the muscles to help with building.

The body’s hormonal response to this huge change in training, nutrition and supplementation is tremendous. Sensing a feast after a famine, it will greedily take in all the nutrients it can and store them in the form of glycogen (for carbs), muscle mass (for protein) and fat (to some extent). Since you will only be doing this phase for 5 days, however, fat gains will be minimal so don’t be shy to eat!

It is important to note that you should eat a lot but you should eat clean – loading up on junk food will not give you the best results. You’ve got to provide your body with quality materials to rebuild with or you may not gain as much muscle and you may add too much fat.

After five days of this training, your metabolism will be cranking along, happily building muscle. Now we’ll pull the rug out and go right back into fat-loss training for five days. Since your body is used to getting more food and your metabolism is still movi! ng fast, switching to fat-loss training at this time will immediately result in your body burning far more fat than if you were using a conventional fat loss program.

In 30 days, you will complete three rounds of this rapid-adaptation training. As you will soon experience, this switching back and forth between a short, targeted fat loss program and a short, targeted muscle-building program can have a tremendous and rapid impact on bodyfat and muscle mass levels.

What does this mean for you? It means you can lose fat faster and gain muscle faster, taking FULL advantage of your body’s natural reaction and rapid adaptation to massive change.

Think this program sounds good?

Susan C.M.:D
 
I think it sounds awfully complicated for something that should be much more simple. I don't do low calorie, I do low carb so I guess I can't really compare my results to someone on a different kind of diet, although I've heard the same thing said about low carb diets.

I always say fitness is like the Bible or the Constitution--for every one interpretation you find, you can find ten more that say something different.

Anyway, I still believe in the simple approach--if you train hard, do your cardio, & watch your diet you'll be in good shape. It's what I've always done, & it's worked great for me.
 
I think that looks like a good article. It makes sense to me.

I don't think our bodies and metabolism are at all simple. I think they are incredibly complex. I think it takes time to learn the right way to eat for your individual situation.

From everything I have read, you need to eat more to gain muscle. Muscles have to feed on something and if there is nothing there, nothing will happen. That just seems logical to me. I think that is reason #1 why so many women work out and don't see the results they want. They eat salads and nibble on lowcal crackers throughout the day and then wonder why they can never increase their weights. Sure some get some results, of varying success, depending on where they started from muscularity wise, or their genetics.

Although I think phrases like "watch what you eat" or "be careful about what you are eating" are definitely great advice, they might not be specific enough to get some people the help they are seeking.

Just my .02
Jen
 
I have to disagree. I think the recipe to being fit is simple--exercise & smart eating is pretty much it. The first 5 years or so that I got into fitness I read everything I could get my hands on & tried all kinds of wacky stuff. After a while I got tired of hearing all these different theories & trying something different every 6-12 months.

So I went for the simple solution. Exercise & smart eating. It made my life a heck of a lot easier & at 36 I'm in far better shape than I was at 26.

On the other hand, some people like to mix it up & try new things, which is also fine. But I'm making an effort to de-mystify fitness here. It doesn't have to be confusing or complicated unless people make it so.
 
In essence, I agree. However, I'm one of those people who are fascinated with the whole subject & will read anything I find about fitness, especially as related to working out. The food thing I just find annoying. LOL Even so, I do it. Usually.

I like to try new workout methods, although certainly not all of them. But if I didn't try new things, I never would have found Cathe. Heavy lifting for women was pretty avante garde back then.

Still, I agree with you that the formula can be kept simple or made less so. Different strokes, I guess.

Ruth:)
 
I think it's as complicated as you make it. If you decrease calories, eat a balance of good foods, and do both strength & cardio....you'll see progress. I do believe it's harder to gain muscle if you eat low calories because your body fights it. But that's just my 2 cents. ;-)

Kathy

http://www.picturetrail.com/kathyg4
 
I totally agree with Jen. I wholeheartedly believe there must be some sort of a calorie surplus to gain muscle. HOWEVER, that surplus is no where near what people think. Eat ice cream as a "treat" twice per week and you are probably there.

When you put on muscle your body is building up. It takes energy to create new muscle. Energy comes in the form of calories. If you spend all your calories on your various metabolic functions and energy needs you have none left to build. Simple concept. I think those of you who have put on muscle while dieting really were eating a bit over what you thought. Just my .02!!!

And... I am smaller now and fit better into my clothes now that I have LOST muscle, so I don't always agree that having muscle will make you look better. It did not for me. I felt better cuz I felt stronger, but my body fat level stayed higher when I was highly muscled. Unless your diet is really clean, I don't think you can carry lots of muscle on your frame without adding more fat than you really want. Unless you have the genetics to do so.
 
Seriously, I think the most sensible plan is to just make sure you are getting enough calories to fuel your energy needs and workout hard. Heavy weights/high intensity cardio balanced with some lower intensity stuff. If you want to concentrate on building muscle, maybe a S&H rotation with 100 additional calories per day to start would be good. Keep a check on whether you are gaining muscle or fat and adjust those extra calories accordingly. Then, after you have gained the mass, I would then do a "cutting" routine to lean out and get a more defined look.


If it was up to me I would always seperate the two phases. That is if I wanted to look like a bodybuilder. Since I just want to be healthy, I would go with the "make sure you are getting enough calories to fuel your energy needs and workout hard plan", which is what I think Maximus is advocating. It surely is the simplest.
 

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