Another Vick post - different twist

andtckrtoo

andtckrtoo

Cathlete
A Pittsburgh reporter was removed from his position for making the statement that Vick would have been better off as a rapist (read story at - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...bc.fbn.vick.reporterapo.ap/index.html?cnn=yes)

I know a lot of us have mentioned astonishment at the airplay, etc, that this story has gotten, and there was some question about whether other offenses would be given the coverage. I'm just curious on peoples thoughts on this statement. I am not looking to incite and argument, but am looking for thoughtful responses. I really am not looking for people to agree with my point of view - I want to know what others think. So if someone thinks differently than you do, please do not flame. We are entitled to our opinions.
 
I have to say, I can understand where the reporter is coming from and I have two thoughts about it.

First, more than anything, I think the comment should be taken as a way for people think about how seriously rape is taken. I believe what the reporter said was true in that, if Vick were accused of rape, I can see it being likely that he'd get little more than a slap on the wrist. His victim would probably be vilified, and he'd be back to playing football in no time at all. I find it very disturbing the height to which celebrity can play a factor in any crime.

Secondly, I think a large part of the outcry stems from the fact that animals are truly innocent. If Vick were a rapist there would be a million different ways and people trying to put holes in the victims story, but there is no way to try and place blame on a dog. We all know what he did and those that are trying to support him, or place the blame somewhere else just seem ridiculous.
 
Yikes. I have to think about this one...

Even if someone agrees with the reporter's statement, I think it is not professional to say something like that. They have to be objective at all times and shouldn't take sides at least in public. I'm not the biggest Vick fan and every single time I see a video of those dogs I get extremely mad, but the comment was made by someone in the press, not by an activist, so I understand why he was removed from the position.
 
Oh, I'm not questioning the removal of the reporter. I'm curious as to whether people feel he was actually making a valid point.
 
I believe it's necessary to preface my remark with this statement: If found guilty, I think Vick should face the same fate as the dogs he allegedly tortured.

Kobe Bryant was allowed to remain on his team and still play basketball while he was facing charges of rape. If you'd ever been raped, as I was at the tender age of 13, you would be incensed by that.

I'm not sure the reporter should've been removed. I think he made a valid point.

There are scumbags in every professional sport; drug addicts, gamblers, womanizers -- and yet people flock to games. I don't get it. Animal abuse is a horrible thing -- it turns my stomach -- but so do these other crimes, and yet parents shell out big bucks to buy their kids posters, jerseys, autographed memorabilia, etc. I just don't get it.
 
I agree with your statement, Michele, about Kobe Bryant. The number of professional athletes who are accused (and occasionally convicted) of domestic violence is astounding, and yet these crimes don't seem to merit any public outcry or disciplinary action. The fact that people are so up in arms about Vick's alleged crime (and not the others) suggests that it's not so bad to beat up a woman. I think that's the point the reporter was making, and it's astute. I'd like to think that that reporter was fired because his statement hit too close to home for many...but I doubt that's the case.
 
I'd like to think
>that that reporter was fired because his statement hit too
>close to home for many...but I doubt that's the case.


I would agree with that one...when something is too raw, it is hard for people to take. (Like seeing animals being tortured or women being raped) We just, as a society, do not want to admit or see the terrible side of human nature.

Also, after the whole Imus-thing - the media outlets are very afraid to offend anyone about anything...
 
The fact that people are so up in arms
>about Vick's alleged crime (and not the others) suggests that
>it's not so bad to beat up a woman.

I disagree with this point as it applies to rape/sexual assault cases. I think the problem with rape cases in particular is that, unfortunately, there ARE women who do lie about being raped. In this case, we all know the victims(the dogs) were innocent. In rape cases, that isn't necessarily the case. In the Kobe Bryant case I know I personally belived the victim and thought it was horrendous that Kobe was allowed to play, etc. But, as it stands now, I'm not so sure I was right.

I do agree that no one seems to 'care' about domestic violence cases. I remember one case in which a pitcher for the Colorado Rockies beat up his wife and threatened her with a gun on Christmas Eve in front of their 3 year old son. His lawyer argued that he couldn't go to jail because it would interfer with his ability to earn a living(a law that they said is often used for truck drivers, etc.--not people who make millions of dollars a year) and he was granted probation instead! It was really disgusting to me.
 
Pippa, I totally agree with you on both counts. The dogs were pure of heart and completely innocent. In a lot of rape cases (like the ones involving athletes) there can be a question of the alleged victim's integrity (i.e. the Duke rape case). In any case of animal abuse there is absolutely NO question that the animal is innocent.

Yes, it does seem celebrities (especially athletes) are afforded way more leniency than anybody else. I know that if I were indicted for a crime, I would most surely be suspended form work without pay, but would be immediately fired if found guilty.

Many of these "role models" and celebrity athletes are nothing but no-good thugs. They're just thugs with money.
 
Pippa, let me first say that I totally agree with you about the domestic violence.

I also appreciate how respectful everyone has been on this thread, because these are difficult issues. So with all due respect,
I would like to point out that women are no more likely to falsely accuse a man of rape than anyone is ever likely to falsely report a crime (such as car theft or robbery). The national average (across many studies) for false claims is about 2% (I'm a gender studies professor so I tend to have data at the tip of my fingers).

So while I think that you (and someone else earlier on this thread) are correct to point out that many people would take issue with the innocence of the dogs, I think that most people aren't aware of the full scope of the innocence of victims of sexual assault.

Respectfully,
Mel
 
I, too, appreciate the thoughtful and respectful way people have treated this question. I know I asked it because I was conflicted and wanted to know what others would say. Thank you, everyone for your opinions and thoughts. I would love to hear more.
 
I'm constantly shocked by the low moral standards of professional athletes. It's like the NFL or NBA or whatever, have no standards - except that the athlete in question must be athletically talented. I think we are seeing this in the military too. The Army has definitely lowered their standards and now we're seeing a lot more violent crimes and gang violence in our military. (DH is in the Army and our next door neighbors are prosecutors and defense attorneys in the Army - so we get to hear a lot more than the Stars and Stripes prints). The bottom line is money for the athletic associations and boots on the ground for the military. Sad.

Carolyn
 
It's hard to tell from the quote lifted out of context whether or not Zeise is actually supporting Vick or if this was a poor and tactless attempt to make a point.

Here is an opinion piece by a different writer which articulates what Zeise was possibly attempting to get across: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2007/08/01/vicked_0802.html

The rest of us would likely be suspended without pay or possibly even fired while pending trial for an alleged crime, so why should celebrities be any different? I know the NFL barred him from training camp, but I hope he is not allowed to take the field until and unless his name is cleared.

~Cathy http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/4.gif

"Out on the roads there is fitness and self-discovery and the persons we were destined to be." -George Sheehan
 
I think another point is that (very unfortunately) we have all been somewhat desensitized by rape, murder, etc. because it's all we hear about and it happens so very frequently. The lay person is not inundated with animal abuse stories day in and day out (as we are with crime reports on the news). Since I work in rescue (and have for over ten years), I do hear day in and day out about cruelty cases, neglect cases, dog fighting, animals in high kill shelters, etc. on a daily basis. I get phone calls and emails every day asking to help this animal or that. The sad part is, while I do seem to be somewhat desensitized to the violent acts that are perpetrated by people against other people, I am still hurt to my very core EVERY time I hear about an animal in need. Maybe people are more angry about Dick and his abuse because they don't hear about those kinds of things as often. It is a barbaric act that people may be shielded from most of the time. JMO.
 
Hi Mel,

The only point I would make is that 2% is still 2%. Unfortunately, it's not 0%. I don't doubt that the vast majority of women who report that they were raped actually were. I hope no one thought that I was implying that. My only point is that, unfortunately, there do exist cases is which a women has knowingly falsely accused someone of rape. The Duke lacrosse team is such an example and there are other, less prominent cases. While that is the exception and not the rule, in the Vick case there is no question about the victims' credibility.


I do agree, however, that the way these cases play out against athletes(since those are the ones that your average person hears about)it probably does seem like it happens all the time. I mean, if you think about if someone were to only look at the Kobe case and the Duke case, people would probably think women make false rape accusations on a regular basis.

ETA: I realize in the Kobe case it was never proven that his accuser was falsely accusing, but she did drop the charges.
 
Michele, first, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. No one should have to endure what you did and that you were only a child when it happened makes it so much more horrible. I hope you are doing okay and that the person who did it is rotting in jail.

I agree with what you said about how parents let their kids worship athletes without regard for their off-field behavior. For me, it's the entire "character package" that makes a person admirable or not. Athletic statistics don't even count in the equation. I'm like you, I just don't get it.

Jonahnah
Chocolate IS the answer, regardless of the question.
 
I agree about parents letting children worship athletes. I lived in Baltimore for a long time and we have a Ravens(NFL) player who plead guilty to obstruction of justice charges in a MURDER case. He LIED to protect his two friends(non-NFL players) who KILLED two men. This was about 6-7 years ago. Today, you can't go to their stadium without seeing a sea of #52 LEWIS jerseys all over kids, adults, etc. He is one of, if the not the most, loved player on the team. I mean, what kind of example and message are we sending to kids.

Unfortunately, fans don't realize or don't care that they really have the bulk of the power here. These teams can't function without fan support, but fans are very slow to take it away. If fans really want to send a message to the NFL and the Falcons they would not show up for Falcons' games if Vick isn't suspended pending the outcome of his trial. In reality, I know the fans aren't going to do that. There would be no quicker way of letting the NFL know just how the fans feel than having the Falcons play in an empty stadium.
 
>The only point I would make is that 2% is still 2%.
>Unfortunately, it's not 0%. I don't doubt that the vast
>majority of women who report that they were raped actually
>were.

Actually what's really frightening is the number of rapes that AREN'T reported b/c women are so afraid of being vilified, having their past scoured for skeletons in their closets, having to be publicly humiliated by the press, having to have the courage to face the offender in court, all with the strong possibility of the offender going free b/c a star-struck jury doesn't want to convict a famous athlete. I'm sure THAT number of women is far higher than the number of false accusers.

It's sickening. I used to be a huge sports fan but this continued behavior of thinking everything in your life should be served up to you on a silver platter, & you can treat women, children, animals, etc. however you d*mn well please just b/c you play a game well (and make $10 mil a year to do it!) has completely turned me off from ALL professional sports PERMANENTLY.
 
Someone sent me a personal e-mail asking for references on these statistics. I was unable to send a personal response due to an error in the address, so I am hoping that person will check here. And of course, I hope anyone else who is interested will check it out.

Below are 2 reputable sites (generally non-political, other than supporting victims), one for America and one for Canada.

The American site is RAINN: Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network:

http://www.rainn.org/statistics/reporting.html

Their false claim data (at the bottom of the page) comes from FBI stats.

The Canadian site has findings from many peer-reviewed publications:

http://www.wavaw.ca/informed_stats.php

The one on this topic is #19 at the bottom of the page.

I hope this is helpful.
 
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