Is there a shrink in the house??

C

charlotteyochem

Cathlete
Warning - this is long. I hope that the guys out there (Dave?) read this because I really need some honest input from the male presepctive, as well.

I am stuck firmly in the mud of dissatisfaction. It is very important to me to get past it so I simply can want to get out of bed in the morning. For a beginning. Do you know what it is like to wake up and have no desire to get out of bed at all? No bright light on your horizon to make you want to get out there and get after it? Sucks. Reasons: 1) I do not like my marriage, frankly, but do not think divorce is the way to go for many various reasons. I may have to change my mind on this, but it would destroy my younger son. Don't want to go there. At any rate, it colors my world a dark grey. I need guidance on how to deal with it and how to live around it. I am not able to solve this one on my own. I do live my own life and have my own activities, relationships, etc. but still the greyness persists. Mostly in the mornings and the evenings. I take Lexapro already. (Now you think I am a whining nut case!!) Anyone who read this who knows me would think it was written by someone else. No one would suspect depression or unhappiness with my life. Is that often the case?

I'm thin and fit. I exercise (Cathe, of course) pretty much everyday. My diet is good, etc. I'm in positions of responsibility at work and in my volunteer life and professional organizations. And still the depression and dissatisfaction. I often sleep 10 - 12 hours a night. I had mono about a year and a half ago and either it is still affecting me or the depression is. I used to be in the office by 6:00 a.m. Now I sometimes try to just get up at 6:00 and fail!! I realize that this is a sympton of the unfriendly mental state in which I live currently and hope it corrects itself when I can figure out how to escape and be happy. (OMG, that sounds pathetic!!)

In addition to our home,I also own a house in New Orleans. I bought it myself and husband has not been involved. I absolutely love being there without husband and his unintended (?) but very real oppressiveness. I can dream again and plan for exciting life things and decisions. I smile when I wake up!! For one thing, New Orleans is ALIVE and growing back. Where we live and work, is not dynamic at all. This is an underlying problem that, perhaps, holds the most hope for curing my stupid blues. Could it be as simple as being a type A person in a type C environment?? Or does that show that I have failed the "bloom where you're planted" maxim? I also own a lake cabin that I also bought on my own and which husband can't stand (sort of like New Orleans) because he's a stick in the mud and is opposed to expanding his life experience. I spend more and more time at the lake cabin (with my beloved boxer, Lola) working on it, etc. I have done most of the remodeling myself, which is a huge source of satisfaction for me. Get this - I tiled the shower!! And it looks good! The reason I mention this cabin is because I am much happier there, as well. But it is NOT a dynamic place. So, the only reason must be because husband is not there to be a wet blanket.

I have a high level of energy while my husband is "just there." It seems to me that for the duration of our 24 year marriage he has been trying to squelch my energy. However, it is my energy that is moving us forward in the world while his type B style has lead to a failing business and loss of respect by me. At the same time, he's a nice guy and a good person.

Ok, enough of that. Time for an action plan to lift this curtain. Here are my ideas, which I'm sure will warrant modification! I'll try to put them in the order of feasibility. I'd love your input.

1. Tell husand that I'm moving on to the things that I need to do to make life full and interesting. I do not want his company since he inevitably brings along his wet blanket and is a downer. Make it very clear that I'm planning to act independently and for him to pretty much stay out of the way.
2. Do Plan #1 plus Tell husband to get his poo together and get with the program. Get counseling if he needs to, but life is passing him by and I'm going with it. (Note - this happened before - about 12 years ago when I was getting out of lawschool and was seeing opportunities that I never knew existed. He resisted but actually made lots of personal improvements and life was much better. He has sunk back into being a stick in the mud, which is his natural state.)
3. Announce a legal separation (not divorce) and let him figure out the rest, if he can. This would be VERY hard on our boys ...
4. Go to counseling together and spend lots of time and money trying to recreate something that never really was there or arrive at an understanding that we need to live our lives somewhat independently of one another in order to keep the marriage and our sanity. Believe me, he can't be happy either. But I have little faith in counselors and have found almost all the be full of politically correct mumbo jumbo. (Apologies to any therapists in the forum!!)

In my profession I am the one who listens and, frankly, I do not have anyone I trust with whom I can discuss this. This forum has impressed me with your responsiveness to others. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Truly.
 
Hi Charlotte,

It sounds to me like you've made your decision but are afraid to admit it to yourself. I spent many years in a bad relationship and looking back on it, some of those years were spent preparing myself to get out. It sounds to me that you are getting yourself ready to get out of this relationship. You've taken steps to free yourself, like buying different homes and making plans that don't include him.

It is my opinion that years spent in a relationship do not merit staying in that relationship even one more day if you don't want to. I also believe that having children with someone does not merit staying in a relationship that isn't working either. But, these are just my opinions and you truly need to come to your own conclusions. Just keep in mind that your happiness is very important not only for your health, but the health of your children and to their understanding of self acceptance as adults. Too many women push aside their happiness to make things better for someone else. This inevitably ends badly. Don't feel bad about examining and taking your feelings seriously. You are a person who deserves to be happy.

Carolyn
 
I read through this quickly and I see two things screaming at me.

1. I don't think you want to fix your marriage. I think that you want to leave. It's not making you happy, and I don't think you believe it ever can. I don't think therapy will help.

2. You're harming your boys much more by staying than by leaving. If you stay in this relationship you so obviously loathe, you are dooming your sons to repeat your mistakes.

I think you should move on. In fact, it sounds like you already have. Divorce will not destroy your sons, but if you stay, it might. All my adult friends of divorced parents say that they wish their parents had just split up instead of putting them through the awful misery for years.

That's my .02 cents.
 
I was in a very similar situation and stuck it out for over 20 years. I believe the greyness or "depression" your are experiencing can be attributed to feeling trapped in your marriage. I felt trapped because I couldn't bear to break our family so I waited until my daughter was grown. During those years I suffered from severe anxiety, depression and panic attacks that I actually controlled through counseling. Hey, we all have out own methods. Due to circumstances I won't go into here, it was better for my daughter that I stay in the marriage so I would do it again but I don't recommend that for anyone else.

I don't know what the difference between a legal separation and divorce would be as far as how your children would react? You and your husband would still be apart, right?

I wonder if your husband is also suffering from a low grade clinical depression. Kind of sounds like it. Has this been explored?

I agree with the others...it could be better to just end the marriage because your relationship with your husband will impact their future relationships. It does sound like you've already made up your mind.
 
I just wanted to add a perspective from a child of divorced parents. My parents always fought and were unhappy together. They got divorced when I was younger, which was confusing and strange for me when I was younger, but they are remarried now and much much much happier in their new marriages. Ironically, both of my parents are Type A people, which didn't workout, and they remarried to Type B people. Now, even though it is annoying to have to go to several family gatherings for holidays, my parents are much happier. Kids adapt and get over it, believe me, they would much rather see their parents happy.

On the flip side, my DH's parents are still together when they clearly should have divorced years ago. They obviously stayed together because they love their children so much, but in the end I think are very unhappy people.

So if the only reason you are staying together at all is because of the kids, I have heard many times that it does more harm than good. You don't want you kids growing up seeing that example of a relationship.
 
I would suggest counseling for yourself if not for the two of you. I don't think 24 years is anything to sneeze at, and I also think it's normal to experience feelings of boredom in a relationship at different times. You say he's a nice guy, just not an up person - as someone else said, perhaps he is depressed. You certainly sound as if you are. Have you been on the Lexapro long? Do you feel better since taking it? If not, you may want to experiment with your doctor with other meds that might work for you.

That being said, not all marriages can be saved, so I will put in my .02 and say that I think announcing a legal separation without intent of pursuing a divorce would be supremely unfair to your family - the husband and the kids. If you're ready to move on, then by all means do so, but let everyone else do so, too.

Marie

PS: Staying together for the kids is just a bad idea. They aren't fooled any more than the two of you are. Divorce doesn't have to be horrible, either. My kids had their moments but have adjusted incredibly well to their now-expanding family. My youngest often brags about the number of families he is part of (mine, his dad's, my fiancee's, and his father's fiancee's). There are positives in any situation....
 
Charlotte,
As a mother, it's only natural to consider how a divorce would affect your children. Consider this - My SIL recently announced to her two grown children that she was divorcing their father. Their response? "What took you so long?" She was shocked to discover that they both knew she had been unhappy and they both wished she had left him years earlier. They admitted that they had been uncomfortable living with his unenergetic, stick in the mud personality too.

I agree with the response above - you've already made up your mind, you just haven't accepted it yet. You already know the answer - go with your heart. Your children will be okay. It won't be easy for them, but in the end you'll all be happier.

Good luck!
 
Wow. I knew you guys would have some amazing insights. I'm just way too close to it and REALLY appreciate your remarks. I'm shocked that they are all the same thing.... much to ponder...
 
Charlotte,

The thing I noticed in reading your post is that you never said you love your husband. Maybe you do, or once did, but it just stuck out to me that you never mentioned the aspect of love.

This is a difficult time for you, and I wish you the strength to make your decision and, most of all, I wish you happiness. Life is too short not to be happy.
 
>Wow. I knew you guys would have some amazing insights. I'm
>just way too close to it and REALLY appreciate your remarks.
>I'm shocked that they are all the same thing.... much to
>ponder...


Well he!!, I'm shocked too, so I'll be the lone dissenter.

First of all, let me say how sorry I am that you're struggling with such difficult issues. I'll keep you in my prayers that you are able to sort through your problems and make the best possible decision for you and your family.

I understand the point being made by my fellow forum friends, that children can't stand it when their parents are unhappy (i.e, not talking, arguing, not doing things together as a family, etc), and that they'd rather go through a divorce than endure those hardships, but I'm not sure I buy it. I think that unless you have a situation where a parent has committed one of the three A's (adultery, addiction, abuse), kids prefer that their mommy and daddy stay together. I think the stats bear that out as well. An argument can be made that the greatest population of kids with behavioral problems are those from broken or single parent homes, regardless of socioeconomic standing. Ask any teacher or pediatrician. As for adult children reflecting back...you know what they say about hindsight? I think there's a big difference between realizing your parents have problems and wishing they would get a divorce.

It must be hard for you to look at your own situation objectively, especially when your judgement may be clouded by feelings of depression or despair. I would recommend against making a decision of this magnitude while under this cloud. I think it would be a good idea to start with counseling. If you're at all religious I would look first to your church for guidance. It would be best if you and your husband seek help as a couple, but go by yourself if he isn't interested.

I love the spirit here and the feeling that we have this vast cyber network of support, but I have to caution you that we are just strangers and we don't know you at all. We also don't have the benefit of hearing the other side of the story. I'm not advocating for you to stay or go, I just think you need to do some serious soul searching and get help from professionals who can be objective and help you sort this out.

All my best to you and please take care of yourself. I will pray for you for strength and discernnment. Take your time and be sure. This is but a moment in the grand scheme of things.
 
I haven't read all of the responses to your post, because I don't want to be too influenced by what others have to say.

When couples are unhappy sometimes they have to stay together for financial reasons, because their resources just will not support two separate households. It sounds like you are lucky enough not to have to worry too much about that. If there is one thing I am sure of, it is that children are NOT happier living with unhappy parents. As difficult as it may be for them at first, it is ultimately SO much healthier for kids to be around parents who are happy. And if you think that your kids don't know what's going on, you are not giving them enough credit. Kids sense things. I don't know you and the specifics about your situation, but I sense that you are making a mistake by staying in a marriage that you have clearly given up on. I know you want to put your kids first, and I respect you for that. But kids are no more happy in an unhappy household than you are. I think you may be doing your whole family a disservice by staying in an unhappy situation. You gave the marriage as much of a chance as anyone can give. How long do you need to continue to suffer? You only live once. That's my two cents worth.

-Nancy
 
Your post raises some interesting questions, you might want to ponder before you make any decisions.
First, were you EVER happy in your marriage, even at the beginning? Why did you marry him? Did he change? Did you change?
How young is your younger son and why do you think it would “destroy” him? It very well might if you think so, and that needs to be given serious consideration.
Are you depressed only when you are around your husband but happy when you get out to your other places by yourself? If so you are probably not really “depressed” clinically or you would not be able to get happy so easily by simply going somewhere. I wonder if you even need Lexapro at all. Sometimes pills are prescribed for very wrong reasons.
I’m getting a lot of conflicting signals about your husband. Is he just different from you, or is he actively sabotaging your desires? I can’t really tell from what you are saying, but it seems like he is just himself and you can’t really stand who he is anymore, but admit that he is, actually, a good guy, just not what you want. Is that it? Think about it. Because he won’t change his essence-really can’t-even if he tries. Counseling isn’t going to accomplish that.
I think in the end you must accept who he is and then decide if that is the person you can live with.
Beth
 
Hello: Like Nancy I'm not reading every post as I may be swayed (ok Nancy I ALWAYS read yours ;)

I think you know what you need to do. It sounds like in your heart you know that you want out.

If you love your kids, and allow their Dad to be in their lives it CAN work out. I've been divorced 17 years now and I have 2 great adjusted kids (one who has had to deal with major medical stuff) so you can do it. My ex is a dear friend and has been incredibly supportive as we have dealt with major stuff with my son.

You will have to weigh if you can be happy alone. Not to scare you off you may meet someone but again you may not. I have many friends who just can't stand the thought of being alone so to them being single is just not an option.

It sounds like you know and I definetly recommend counseling as you go through this tough time.

There are quite a few single Moms on this forum so you won't be alone.
 
Hi,

I'm no therapist, but I've just read your very sad posting and it got me thinking...

First of all, because you stayed in this marriage for 24 years, we can all assume that at one point you must have loved your husband even if you do not now? I just find it sad that the only positive thing you had to say about him is that he's a nice guy.
Secondly, have you considered the possibility that your husband is also suffering from depression? You sound like an extremely busy, successful person, and perhaps your husband has been feeling like he's playing second fiddle to all the other aspects of your life that he isn't/doesn't want to be included. In a similar situation, I think I would be a bit withdrawn as well. This is just my conjecture, of course, but an evaluation of your husband may in the end help you both.
Additionally, you seem to have many interests and activities that you take part in, albeit without husband's interest or involvement. Just wondering if you make an attempt to be involved in his interests as well.
My husband and I also have very different jobs (I'm a biology grad student, he works in retail) and interests, so we do a lot of things separately and with few exceptions have our own sets of friends. But we also make time to do things together that we both enjoy in addition to those interests that are solely are own.
good luck with your situation.
cristina
 
As someone else said we are strangers and we all don't know the whole story... I'm making blind guesses PLEASE do not take offense if I get something totally wrong

It sounds like you and your husband have issues with depression. You're already taking something for it, when is the last time you talked to the doc about your med, dosage etc. if you've been married 24 years and went to law school, guessing a marriage at 25 or so it would make you 50 or so. I'm not a woman so I don't know how the "change of life" would affect a medicine. I'm shooting from the hip please don't anyone take offense. If I blew your age, I'm sorry please don't tell the carnival as they'll fire me.

Your hubby may be depressed can you guys talk about it? At 50 or so he would be having a "change" of life as well. This is depressing for a guy, I know, been there, done that. His failed business shouldn't be an issue, most entrepreneurs fail numerous times before succeeding, and most of the greater business failures have been when the entrepreneur didn't get a good CEO to run the company when it got too big for the entrepreneur.

If both of you guys are in the same rut, I think you could repair it. Both of you would have to admit to a problem, go to counseling or mediation and work together to fix it. If either one holds back then it will fail.

If you guys should part ways, for the sake of your kids live close nearby and be friends to each other. You say he's a nice guy and a good person he might not be a success at being the "love of your life" but he sounds like he would be a great friend if the separation is amicable. I don't know that that would reek havoc with your children, if you stay together and harbor resentment against each other they will know.

well it was long so I'll have to say it's my 5 cents. Good luck with your with plans, whatever happens I hope it works out the best for everybody.

Dave
 
Charlotte,

I only have one thing to say...If you are unhappy in your marriage and have been for as long as you say, it's time to get a divorce!

Your kids will get through it and so will you. It might be tough at times but I think it's best.

I, like many posters, do not believe in staying together for the sake of the kids. The only time I would say it could be the wiser decision is in a case where it comes down to staying in an unhappy (but not abusive, etc.) marriage or taking your kids and living in the street. You are obviously not in that type of situation. You seem to be doing quite well for yourself in that regard. I say you need to leave or you will never find the happiness you yearn for.

You deserve to be happy Charlotte. Stop punishing yourself by staying in a marriage that obviously makes you miserable!

Just my 2 cents!:)
 
Charlotte-
My heart goes out to you!
As Dave said- none of us knows the 24 year history and big picture so all advise (IMO) should be weighed against the knowledge that only you personally have....
Having said that, I believe that great therapists exist and they are worth their weight in gold. The good ones will ask you the right questions so you decide for yourself what is best. You can do this alone first and then with hubby (most marriage counselors suggest that way)
The other reason I am an advocate for counseling is that many times when we leave something we forget that we were part of a partnership and contributed our own stuff to the issue. (no personal offense here!) We can change jobs, change towns, change spouses, but we always take ourselves with us. This could be a golden time for you to work on finding out what will bring your life great joy!
Just keep in mind that you are at a fork in the road and it is indeed time to move forward, which direction you go will be the perfect one for you if you follow your heart and gut instinct.

Lots of hugs coming your way!
 
Beth, Cristina, Dave, Shelley, Carolyn, Candi, Diane, Marie, Gym Mom, Michele, Melody, Nancy and Robyn:

My jaw is hanging open - you must be witches to read between the lines so accurately... I'm momentarily speechless. And I cannot tell you how much your responses help me. I would never get such genuine thoughts from a friend because they DO know me and would be trying not to step on any feelings - not that you guys have - but you are free to tell it like you see it specifically because you do not know me. And that is what I need - and I thank you again and again. Wow.

I'm only 44 (VERY young mother) and my boys are 19 and 23. Yes, I actually am in perimenopause and think the 'mones may be starting to act up. That is one of the reasons I have delayed seeking help for so long - I hoped that it would pass and things would look rosier. But that really hasn't happened.

And my husband is not and never has or will be the love of my life. Don't know what I was thinking back when I was 19. Not much, most of the time. But he is a good person and a nice guy. That is a positive. The 23 year old would be OK but the 19 year old is ultra sensitive and it scares me to consider what he might do. I do understand what all of you say about them adjusting, and do not doubt it. But that requires heavy pondering because of him. And I agree that there is some depression in my husband. For sure. In fact, we talked about it last night. So there may be hope in that area. Regarding his business: Dave - you hit it right on the head... He refuses to hire a CEO yet does not have a management gene in his body. Amazing! He is a Steelcase Furntiture Dealer and, with his father (now deceased) has been for over 60 years. It should be a goldmine but his management skills are lacking and it's going downhill fast. He feels helpless and I feel crazy with frustration because it is all so clear to me. But, I am a type A business-minded person and he is a type B meditator. (Not to offend any meditators who may be out there, but it infuriates me, frankly, and I do not see anything positive that comes out of meditation, at least for him). So see - you guys have helped me isolate something for us to talk to a good counselor about already!

You're probably drifting off reading this tome, so I'll give you a break and sign off. Once again, your thoughts are invaluable to me and I appreciate them so much. This is the best thing I ever did to take the plunge and post my problem to you guys!!!
 
Charlotte-
I'm glad you were helped by reading the posts here. I must admit that I was very surprised to read that the "children" you are protecting are actually adults. It sounds like your younger son may be suffering from some kind of disability. Nonetheless, at 19 years old you have already "raised" him and he is who he is going to be at this point. No matter what his issues, I think it is unlikely that a divorce is going to change him in any significant way.

My stepson was a little boy when my DH left his first wife and it was VERY tough on both my DH and my stepson. At that time there was very little money, and when my stepson came to visit his Dad, the two of them were squeezed into a tiny little apartment. For all the hardship though, I don't think that either my DH or my stepson would have been better off if that marriage had continued. My DH's first wife was also depressed and my DH outgrew her and needed to get on with his life. If I do say so myself, I think I have been a very positive influence in my stepson's life. My stepson was recently married and he told me that having our relationship as a role model meant a lot to him. He and his wife are perfect for each other and we couldn't be more happy for them.

I don't know if that helps or not, but I wanted to share that with you in case it does.

-Nancy
 
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